Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Another Look at POP RADAR

UPDATED: 10 MAY 07


For all the headaches that POP has created, I have yet to encounter a single speed trap actually using it.


This situation is not entirely unlike the problems created -- for the detector and jammer industry -- by stealth-mode police lidar from LaserAtlanta.


Like K-band POP, stealth-mode LIDAR is not consistently detectable by any other radar detector than the Valentine 1 and up until fairly recently wasn't detectable (and jammable as a result) by any jammers other than Blinder. It just so happens that VEIL is extremely effective against this form of police laser, so not many worries here.


But, I haven't actually come across a speed trap where stealth-mode has actually been used, so having a detector not being able to detect it or a jammer not being able to detect/jam it, isn't really a handicap. I am feeling more and more like this each day I drive about POP RADAR.


For all the fanfare that has been generated by POP RADAR (for which the technology has been around for some time), it has done nothing really positive. It has instead, has upset the whole radar detector industry, which is most unfortunate, because I very much doubt many of us will actually ever encounter it. The dynamic that this technology has created may be contributing to another potential problem...radar detectors built to detect POP RADAR are susceptible to radar emissions of a similar nature -- some of the new ACC/ADAS systems coming online, today. These systems, while well-meaning, are misguided in their design as they operate on the same frequency band as police K-band radar.


In fact there is one form of POP that operates four times quicker than regular POP RADAR -- at a blistering 16ms. The only detector that has been able to sniff this form out is again the V1, but it generally has about a one in ten chance of doing so. I was concerned initially about it, but no longer. As Steve has correctly stated in one of the comments below, you probably have about the same chance as getting hit by a bolt of lightning as being tagged with POP in either form (16ms or 67ms)!



*Reprinted with permission from the Guys of Lidar.


The threat of POP today is feeling more like a marketing ploy to sell certain police radar guns, than a bona-fide tool to measure speed in a furtive manner and I can only hope that it will fade into the history books of ideas that looked better on paper than in actual practice.


For that there is police laser, with which drivers may legally be ticketed.


Further, one doesn't need POP to obtain speed readings with minimal chances of alerting many other drivers. I have seen it [and so have you] and its called instant-on radar (which has been around for decades) from behind. I have seen very capable troopers in NJ utilize an older but effective K-55 X-band police radar from behind in a manner which provides very little advanced warning to approaching drivers and only the best detectors at X-band (V1, RX65, STi Driver) provide the greatest chance of spotting it before it's too late.


I seriously doubt that officers equipped with such guns feel the need (or are actually trained) to take the additional time to navigate through menus and take additional steps to properly engage POP and use it in their day-to-day monitoring of traffic in a manner that is consistent with the manufacturer's own guidelines. Perhaps when they first got them and there was this initial "buzz", but not any longer.


Why do I think that is a fair assessment? Because there are plenty of drivers out there who either do not drive with a detector nor possess a premium or ultra-premium radar detector. In otherwords, there are plenty of fish in the pond, so to speak, so there really is no need to take the extra steps or deal with the additional aggravation of operating radar in POP-mode. I really think it is that simple. Traffic enforcement has had plenty of business deploying radar for decades against drivers who have used radar detectors for about as long a time, so the likes of POP really won't change that.


In fact, I would argue that the deterrent traffic departments wish to achieve occurs when speeders are pulled over and receiving a ticket in plain view of everyone and not prior [by their particular method]. I know from experience to respect certain stretches of highway regardless of the traffic monitoring mode utilized, as I am sure you have, regardless of what radar detector is used.


I feel the same way about automated speed enforcement technology -- without the officer actually pulling over the offender in plain-site for everyone to see -- there really is no direct feedback mechanism to other drivers to let them know that a certain area is being monitored. If the name of the game is to slow drivers down, then what better way to do that than with traffic stops with lights blaring. Again that is where the deterrent lies and not with the technology, per se.


It is painful to see detector manufacturers spend the time, money, and resources on coming up with solutions to problems which really don't need to exist nor serve a productive purpose.


Veil Guy


©2007 Veil Corporation. All rights reserved. No part may be duplicated without expressed written permission of the author.

Interaction Between POP Reception in Radar Detectors and certain Collision Avoidance Systems

UPDATED 10 MAY 07:


According to AudiWorld, the Q7's side-assist system is located in the rear bumpers on both sides of the vehicle and monitors traffic to the side and rear of the car.


As of this morning, the feedback I have received from Valentine Research concerning this issue is that the side assist systems employed on the Audi Q7 utilizes a K-POP-like signal profile and since the Valentine 1 is the only radar detector that can actually detect K-band POP consistently (67ms variety, not 16ms), it alerts to the presence of this system - which is a bona-fide source of K-band radar - where other detectors less capable of this reception mode, can not.



*Reprinted with permission from Guys of Lidar
.


I would expect that the V1 would tend to alert frequently to this radar-source from within the confines of the Audi Q7, which would not really be a workable situation, IMO. In this situation, V1 owners who drive such equipped vehicles could disable the side-assist option and/or disable the J-function as a workaround for the near-term.


On the surface, this may appear to be a "flaw" in the Valentine 1, but that is not the case. In fact, the opposite holds true - it is actually a reflection of the high sensitivity this detector has to K-band POP mode. I haven't been able to confirm whether or not disabling the POP reception (J-function) will eliminate this alerting.


This type of "falsing" is more of a challenge than the typical alerts one gets from stationary K-band door openers and the like that are readily identifiable as such -- by listening to the signal ramp and observing the arrows (from front to side to rear) as one passes these sources.


These kinds of alerts appear more like a bonafide threat -- in the form of a cruiser operating K-band radar in the flow of traffic -- making it much harder for the driver to make a relatively quick distinction.


Fortunately, this system on the Q7 that operates in the K-band range is pointed towards the rear. It's cruise control (Distronic) apparently operates at 76.5Ghz. Had that system been designed to operate on the same frequency as the side-assist, the problem for us drivers, who use the V1, would be compounded further as additional alerts would appear from the back initially and one would have to slow down and wait until one was overtaken by a vehicle so equipped before realizing that it was not a cruiser or unmarked vehicle operating K-band radar to nab would-be speeders from behind.

Suffice it to say, Valentine Research is aware of this potential issue and is working on addressing it in a manner that does not compromise the detector's performance and I trust they will do so -- long before this technology becomes more commonplace.

To read more about the particulars of Side-Assist technology -- which, at the moment appears to be a $500USD option -- one may refer to the following online sources of information:


Animated Video of Side-Assist in Use
Audi World



Veil Guy


©2007 Veil Corporation. All rights reserved. No part may be duplicated without expressed written permission of the author.

Tuesday, May 01, 2007

Audi's Q7 side-assist and K-band POP Reception Don't Mix Well

UPDATED: 10 MAY 07


Last week my wife and I were returning home from a night on the town; I treated Lisa to a nice birthday dinner at Fogo de Chão in downtown Philadelphia. If you are interested in an interesting dining experience, I recommend this venue, just watch the L'Esprit at $685 a glass...and I thought that Louis XIII was a bit pricey at $185!


As we were making our way west on Route 422 towards Reading, my Valentine 1 started alerting fiercely to a K-band source and continued to do so for about five minutes. Its arrows hunted around indicating the source of radar was from the front, then side, then rear, then front again and repeated this sequencing over and over again. I never experienced this kind of behavior from this detector when there was clearly no state trooper in our direction of travel. In PA, state troopers are only permitted to operate radar from a stationary position.


I powered up the Beltronics STi Driver and to its credit, it remained totally silent. Repowering up the Valentine 1, it began alerting to this unknown K-band radar source. By now, I had discounted the possibility that the Valentine 1 was defective and began to search out what was the likely source of this alert.


It didn't take too long to do so. As I came behind a dark gray SUV the Valentine 1 alerted to K-band at full strength. When I changed lanes and/or backed enough for another vehicle to pull in front of me and behind this mysterious SUV, the signal strength dropped considerably.


Hmmm...What kind of vehicle could possibly cause the V1 to go haywire? I got my answer as I passed this gray SUV. On the back I saw the logo - Q7. So this was the Audi Q7 SUV, a vehicle which has two radar-based driver assistance options. One is an adaptive cruise control--which is stated to operate at 76.5Ghz and side-assist--which aids drivers with alerts to objects/vehicles in blind-spots. According to AudiWorld's Q7 Review, this side-assist operates in the 24Ghz range which appears very close to K-band's 24.1Ghz. Jeez...and I bet you thought door openers were bad enough.


At any rate, be advised that if you ever get very strange alerts from your Valentine 1 on K-band that you can't seem to identify or locate in the usual fashion, keep an eye out for an Audi Q7 . You will probably be overtaking it fairly quickly. Once past it, things quiet down to normal.


And if you are considering a purchase of a new Audi Q7 in the very near future, you may want to consider arming yourself with a Beltronics STi Driver or another top-flight radar detector that won't alert to the Q7's radar-based sensors or disabling the system (which I trust is possible) until VR comes up with a solution. I will pass my findings on to the fine engineers at Valentine Research to see if there are alternative options.


UPDATE: 3 MAY 07 - It must be noted, since this issue may be tied to K-POP reception, and to be absolutely fair to the V1, POP reception on the STi was OFF, at the time I powered it up to see if it would alert, as well.

Additional Related Reading:

Veil Guy


©2007 Veil Corporation. All rights reserved. No part may be duplicated without expressed written permission of the author.